Myth 11: In Ehsan Jafri’s case, women were raped
Posted on May 22, 2008 - Filed Under 12-Concocted Lies and Myths by the media |
Fact: The following is some part of Arundhati Roy’s article in weekly Outlook dated 6 May 2002 on the Ehsan Jafri case:
“Last night a friend from Baroda called. Weeping. It took her fifteen minutes to tell me what the matter was. It wasn’t very complicated. Only that Sayeeda, a friend of hers, had been caught by a mob. Only that her stomach had been ripped open and stuffed with burning rags. Only that after she died, someone carved ‘OM‘ on her forehead…
…A mob surrounded the house of former Congress MP Iqbal Ehsan Jaffri. His phone calls to the Director-General of Police, the Police Commissioner, the Chief Secretary, the Additional Chief Secretary (Home) were ignored. The mobile police vans around his house did not intervene. The mob broke into the house. They stripped his daughters and burned them alive. Then they beheaded Ehsan Jaffri and dismembered him. Of course it’s only a coincidence that Jaffri was a trenchant critic of Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, during his campaign for the Rajkot Assembly by-election in February…”
Outlook had the guts to publish a rebuttal from a senior functionary of the BJP, the then Rajya Sabha MP Balbir Punj. The following was the reply:
“Fiddling With Facts As Gujarat Burns
Introduction: The Roys in the media are harming India with half-truths and worse.
“(Here Balbir Punj quotes some sentences from Roy’s article dated 6th May 2002)…
That was the Goddess of small things, Arundhati Roy, painting the big picture of Gujarat in Democracy: Who’s she when she’s at home? (Outlook, May 6, 2002). Roy sums here neatly almost all the charges against the Sangh Parivar. When a reputed weekly like Outlook publishes a Booker Prize-winner, it is meant to be serious commentary. And concomitantly, Roy has put her brilliant linguistic skills to the service of “truth”. Read her graphic details—”The mob broke into the house. They stripped his daughters and burnt them alive”. Roy speaks with the confidence of an eyewitness. Alternatively, she must’ve access to an eyewitness. Anyway, it reads heart-rendingly honest.
Heart-rending, yes, but honest, no. Jaffri was killed in the riots but his daughters were neither “stripped” nor “burnt alive”. T.A. Jafri, his son, in a front-page interview titled Nobody knew my father’s house was the target (Asian Age, May 2, Delhi edition), says, “Among my brothers and sisters, I am the only one living in India. And I am the eldest in the family. My sister and brother live in the US. I am 40 years old and I have been born and brought up in Ahmedabad.”
So, Roy is lying—for surely Jafri is not. But what about the hundreds of media lies that haven’t been exhumed as yet? Her seven-page long (approx: 6,000 words) hate charter against India and the Sangh Parivar is woven around just two specific cases of human tragedy, one of which—by now, we know for sure—is a piece of fiction…
…She terms Gujarat the “petri dish” of the Sangh Parivar. The fact is that Godhra has been used as a crucible by the secular fundamentalists. No wonder, after the roasting of the Ram sevaks, they, while condemning the crime, blamed the victims. Many of them invented events such as a quarrel with hawkers, misbehaviour with women and shouting of provocative slogans to justify the horrendous crime…
…But was what happened in Gujarat a “pogrom” targeted at Muslims? Loss of 900-odd innocent lives (both Hindus and Muslims) is definitely not a “genocide” of any one community. Yet it is one more shameful event in the long and unfortunate chain of communal riots in India, since the 1893 Bombay and Azamgarh riots. Beginning from the 1714 Holi riots in the Mughal period, Ahmedabad itself has witnessed no less than 10 major recorded riots.
The Sangh Parivar was not there in 1714, nor was it a dominant force during the ‘69 and ‘85 riots. So what explains these riots when Gujarat was not a ‘Sangh Parivar petri dish’?
Out of those who perished in the communal frenzy, over one-third are Hindus.
Following Godhra, massive spontaneous violence broke out in various parts of Gujarat against the Muslims. Since the rioters were mainly Hindus, they also accounted for about 75 per cent of those who fell to police bullets in the first three days. In fact, till April 18 Hindus accounted for more deaths in police firing than Muslims.
But for almost three weeks now, the violence has been led by Muslims against Hindus and, naturally, a bulk of the casualties are accounted for by them. The police have booked 34,000 rioters, majority of whom are Hindus. Both communities have suffered heavy loss of business and property in the arson and looting. While rioters are communal in picking their targets, looters are not—and they target at random. One lakh Muslims are struggling in relief camps, but so are 40,000 Hindus. This is a horrible riot, which is sad enough, but why call it a genocide? Whom does it help? Not the riot victims, only our enemies across the border.
The country hasn’t suffered so much loss of face in the world as it has now, though it is like one of the scores of riots India has seen. Why? The obvious culprits are those who set ablaze a compartment full of innocent kar sevaks at Godhra and those who indulged in the senseless violence in the following weeks. But the real villains in tarring India’s image are the Roys in the media and a section of public life, who mix half-truths with fiction to settle their ideological or political scores with the Sangh Parivar.
Roy (a role model for several in the secular pack) opens her hate charter with the case of a woman named Sayeeda “whose stomach was ripped open and stuffed with burning rags”. I heard similar horror stories in Parliament. The most frequently quoted were the cases of women raped (in some cases gang-raped), their stomachs ripped open, foetuses taken out and paraded on swords or trishuls. But no one was able to give me even one specific case with all the particulars. Roy gave one, but it proved to be a piece of fiction…
… Blatant myths and fiction have lacerated the facts on Gujarat. The Times of India (March 3) reported Modi’s much-publicised misquote of Newton’s third law—”Every action has an equal and opposite reaction”. In fact, the CM had never said such a thing and no other paper except for Times of India had carried the misquote in its original reportage. But later on, numerous editorials were penned on the basis of this canard. All his denials were thrown in the dustbin…
…The Editor’s Guild came down heavily on the Gujarati press and hailed the role of the English press in coverage of the riots. The former might have been guilty of exaggeration but I am sure it has not concocted stories the way the Roys did in the English media. Surprisingly, the Guild has nothing critical to say on the role of the electronic media and of the Roys, guilty of blackening India’s name, generating more communal hate at a critical time and demonising a section of citizens through half-truths and complete lies. Some rioters may be guilty of rape and should be punished for their heinous crimes, but what about those who have raped the truth and the country in the last two months?”
This really gave the game up. After this, Arundhati Roy wrote “An apology”. The full text of that apology is reproduced here:
“To the Jaffri Family, An Apology
In a situation like the one that prevails in Gujarat, when the police are reluctant to register FIRs, when the administration is openly hostile to those trying to gather facts, and when the killings go on unabated—then panic, fear and rumour play a pivotal role. People who have disappeared are presumed dead, people who have been dismembered and burnt cannot be identified, and people who are distraught and traumatised are incoherent. So even when those of us who write try and use the most reliable sources, mitakes can happen.
But in an atmosphere so charged with violence, grief and mistrust, its important to correct mistakes that are pointed out.
There is a factual error in my essay Democracy: Where’s she when she’s at home? (May 6). In describing the brutal killing of Ehsan Jaffri, I have said that his daughters had been killed along with their father. It has subsequently been pointed out to me that this is not correct. Eyewitness accounts say that Ehsan Jaffri was killed along with his three brothers and two nephews. His daughters were not among the 10 women who were raped and killed in Chamanpura that day.
I apologise to the Jaffri family for compounding their anguish. I’m truly sorry.
My information (mis-information, as it turned out) was cross-checked from two sources. Time magazine (March 11) in an article by Meenakshi Ganguly and Anthony Spaeth; and “Gujarat Carnage 2002: A Report to the Nation” by an independent fact-finding mission which included K.S. Subrahmanyam, former IGP Tripura, and S.P. Shukla, former finance secretary. I spoke to Mr Subrahmanyam about the error. He said his information at that time came from a senior police official.
This and other genuine errors in recounting the details of the violence in Gujarat in no way alters the substance of what journalists, fact-finding missions, or writers like myself are saying.”
The link is: http://www.outlookindia.com/rants.asp?type=single&id=20020527133759
Years later, Balbir Punj wrote in weekly Organiser dated 9 July 2006:
“Some four years ago I had a clash in print with Arundhati Roy. The occasion was the Gujarat riots that had come as a windfall to ‘secular’ brigade’s publicity campaign. Those ‘secularists’ are no where visible, not even with a telescope, when Hindus are killed in Doda. Roy, in her article Who’s she when she is at home? (The Outlook May 6, 2002) had given a vivid account of a mob attack on house of ex-Congress MP Iqbal Ehshan Jafri, who was unfortunately killed in the riots. Roy gave a graphic detail-“mob broke into the house. They stripped his daughters and burnt them alive”.
This event became a media-occasion for Roy to demonise Hindutva. But those who had read The Asian Age (May 2, 2002) would not have been impressed because in it late Ehshan Jaffri’s son T.A. Jaffri said -“Among my brothers and sisters, I am the only one living in India. And I am the eldest in the family. My sister and brother live in the US. I am 40 years old and I have been born and brought up in Ahmedabad”. So Roy was describing the stripping and killing of Ehshan Jafri’s daughter’s in Gujarat riots, who in reality were safe in another part of the globe.
Roy had begun her charter of hate with another damning description: “Last night a friend from Baroda called. Weeping. It took her fifteen minutes to tell me what the matter was. It wasn’t very complicated. Only that Sayeeda, a friend of hers, had been caught by a mob. Only that her stomach had been ripped open and stuffed with burning rags. Only that after she died, someone carved ‘OM’ on her forehead”.
Shocked by this despicable “incident”, I got in touch with the Gujarat government. The police investigations revealed that no such case, involving someone called Sayeeda, had been reported either in urban or rural Baroda. Subsequently, the police sought Roy’s help to identify the victim and seek access to witnesses who could lead them to those guilty of this crime. But the police got no cooperation. Instead, Roy, through her lawyer, replied that the police had no power to issue summons. Thus she hedged behind technical excuses. I took up this incident in my rejoinder published as Dissimulation In Word and Images (The Outlook, July 8, 2002).”
See link:
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=138&page=8
However, here it is worth mentioning a couple of things which even Balbir Punj did not mention. This apology is also false, since Roy claims that 10 women were raped and killed that day. In reality, after reading the then English newspapers in the first week of March 2002, one finds no mention of any rapes at all. These stories of rape starting coming out in the middle of March 2002, after Time magazine concocted lies in its issue of 11 March 2002, copied by Arundhati Roy. Neither Roy nor the Time correspondent can point out any rapes, because they just didn’t happen.
Second incorrect fact- the police did nothing to stop the mob in Jafri’s house. India Today weekly dated 18 March 2002 clearly admits that at least 5 people were shot dead by the police outside Jafri’s house. The police also saved the lives of some 200 Muslims, since only 68 out of the 250 people inside the house died. It was impossible for the police to control the mob of around 10,000 people- and the mob had gone crazy after Jafri fired from his revolver on the crowd- which injured 7 Hindus- and allegedly killed 3 Hindus. But despite this- police saved 200 Muslims in this episode.
Another incorrect fact- mentioned by Roy was that 150 people were killed in the complex. Actually- the number is around 50- and after the revised death toll has been given- 7 years after the riots where all missing people have been declared dead-it is 68. Out of the 250 people in the complex- police saved around 200.
Also Roy says-“His phone calls to the Director-General of Police, the Police Commissioner, the Chief Secretary, the Additional Chief Secretary (Home) were ignored. The mobile police vans around his house did not intervene.” What rubbish again! Police vans outside his house not only intervened- they shot dead 5 Hindus outside his house and saved the lives of 200 Muslims- at a great risk to their own personal life.
Note here- that Roy does not claim that Jafri telephoned the Chief Minister Narendra Modi- as late as May 2002! Now- lies are out that Jafri actually phoned Modi as was abused by Modi on phone! The fact is- that day day the situation was out of control- Modi frantically called the Army to Ahmedabad- and he was very busy handling the situation. There is NO RECORD of any call made by Jafri to Modi. And yet- liers like Teesta Setalvad seem to have paid bribes to witnesses to falsely claim that Modi had abused Jafri on phone- and Jafri old them this fact before he died!!!
Some other questions which can be raised here are: Why didnt Jafri call any CONGRESS LEADER- and ask the Congress Party to assemble 500 workers outside his house- to save his life? Why couldnt the Congress Party have do anything to save its former MP?
Even the National Commission for Women in its report stated that the media needlessly exaggerated the plight of women victims of the communal carnage. On 22nd
April 2002- Tehelka’s website said–“Nafisa Hussain, a member of the NCW, has gone on record saying that several organisations and the media have needlessly blown out of proportion the violence suffered by minority women in the communal riots of Gujarat.”
Someone should prosecute Arundhati Roy for such malicious lies…
correct me if i am wrong but in this site no one has used any quotes related to hindu religion to put it down. so according to ur statement”I have not downplayed others religions- other religions have ridiculed Hindu religion- so in self defense I have quoted some parts of their texts.” i don’t see what are u defending against.
Even if the people of other religion have a go at my religion I believe that they are the deduded ones and are ignorant people who have not fully realized the true nature of their own religion and regard their statements as the barking of dog.
But if u are influenced by the mere statements of these ignorant people and are ready to pounce upon them;then u appear to have no faith of ur own religion and are no better than them because u have weakened ur faith of universal acceptance just because of these dogs who hardly know what their own religion conveys.So I don’t go “to a mosque disguised as a Muslim and ask Muslims about idol worship, Hindu religion- you will only see contempt and ridicule. And the same with Christians- who laugh at Hindu religion for idol worship” because I know what my religion is and I don’t run about to a stinking source to confirm that and that is why I don’t have a go at other peoples’ faith just because of “self defense”…..
regarding ur quest of “which religion is true?” I have an inspirational source for u…..
http://www.theuniversalwisdom.org/hinduism/why-we-disagree-vivekananda/
that’s all I have to say.
Well Abhishek- may be I am wrong- and Islam and Christianity are true. (How can both of them be true? Islam claims Jesus was only a human Prophet not crucified and Mohammad the best and last of Prophets. Chrisitianity claims that Jesus was not merely a Prophet but A SON OF GOD who was crucified and Mohammad was a hoax and no Prophet. One of these religions must be false.)
If I am wrong and these quotations from the Bible and Quran are wrongly quoted- tell me what is right. Of course all religions are not the same. Of course Islam doesnt reespect Hinduism. Far from respect- Islam doesnt even tolerate Hinduism- and has downright contempt for Hindus- ridiculing idol worship and other laughable beliefs of Islam- like all idolators will go to Hell. I have a right to put forward what I read in the Bible and in the Quran- if I am wrong- pinpoint where I am wrong- instead of generalizing statements that all religions are good.
I have not downplayed others religions- other religions have ridiculed Hindu religion- so in self defence I have quoted some parts of their texts.
From your name you seem to be a Hindu. If you are- ever go to a mosque disguised as a Muslim and ask Muslims about idol worship, Hindu religion- you will only see contempt and ridicule. And the same with Christians- who laugh at Hindu religion for idol worship. It is time both these religions are told to get rid of their outdated fanatical beliefs of a Jealous God, and Hell for Hindus. If they accept this- and leave us alone- we will also leave them alone- and not mention their past atrocities.
hello there!
the first and the foremost requirement of a hindu as declared in the Gita is universal acceptance.if u can’t do this one simple and pure thing,I can’t expect u to do anything. Religions are made and are practiced by people not because of any customs or anything but because there is a need for everyone to follow a higher and inspirational ideal so that they can make themselves a better human being and live a motivational and pure life. In other words I can say that religion are the source of goodness. whatever customs people follow in their religions are due to some or the other reason which provides them eternal contentment.In this site i have seen people involving in such mundane activities regarding other religion that i have been deeply disappointed and have decided to stop my subscription to this site. I would like to certainly convey the commentators and the readers that whoever abuses and try their whole strength to put down other peoples’ religions(if you get the hint Mr.rmsh) he can be never be of his own religion(i.e he is so called )and i can guarantee that he can never ever be a good human being till he leaves this ridiculous habit and repents his deeds
Good wishes to all the believers.
farewell!!!!!!
I will back in detail tomorrow, but just to laugh at your pathetic plight of actually trying to debate. You are using U.S DEPARTMENT OF Justice’s statistics here. This is the most greatest thing I have seen you done so far.
THIS IS WHAT MAKE AMERICA GRAND DADDY OF INDIA, PAKISTAN CHINA AND THE WHOLE WORLD.
it is a country like america, where government takes effort to report all crimes against women, men and children and thats why you have thes big numbers to bark about. Even with media boom in india, 90% of rapes are not reported, the number you are telling me, would be far more horrific for India if india actually had any capabilities to track all these down.
In a country, when 84 riots happened, the govt can 3000 died when actual number 10,000+ and in 85 when 15,000 died in bhopal and govt can say only officially some 3000 died and in gujarat when 2500+ died and govt can say only 1100 died, that country is nothing but full of people who are egoistic and blind in self pride.
It is America, where crimes don’t go unpunished. Yea of course US ARMY men raped women in Iraq, I don;t doubt that. Which army in this world is clean enough, even Indian army has raped women in kashmir and other states. Indian police of mumbai rapes women in their police station.
Even your religious leaders have sex with young women, the most recent SEX RACKET of that guys who was acting like sadhu baba and actually was running a sex racket all over India. Your so called peaceful hindus were licking his feet like he is divine power, this is the reality of hinduism also. Fakeness and hypocrisy is more in hindu religion than any other religion.
Dude you are making fool + idiotic looser and seriously retarded if you tell me hinduism is far better than other religions. Hinduism has some of the most disgusting and Bizarre rituals ever known to man. Go to ajmer, where these freaks pretend to remove BHOOT from bodies of people like making them do torturous things. Hinduism has some of the most pathetic rituals where one tortures himself to make the deity feel happy. I have seen videos of hindu males poking needles through their skin, mouth and body parts and doing bizarre dances on the streets…
Wao, what a great religion to practice??? There are most unimaginative customs in hindu religion that make it far less than a better religion in this world.
There are tons and tons of articles about the most unbelievable customs practicer all over India. For example, read this page where they talk about things like tongue cutting, breast cutting and Immersion is water:
http://www.indianmirror.com/strange/stindia2.html
Look at this article that will help you open you eyes to not to secret ANIMAL SACRIFICE so much common in indian history. It is even seen in many mainstream movies, killing animals for food is one thing, but what freaking hindu god likes to drink blood of animals call himself peaceful haan?? read this:
http://www.belch.com/blog/2007/09/05/barbarian-hindu-rituals/
And there are hundreds of more articles I can paste here that deal with things like a woman being made to have sex with his husband and then other men of the family, things like HONOR KILLINGS, prostitution of children that are CURRENTLY BEING PRACTICED as frequently as one goes to movie theaters in India.
Yea of course you have talk a lot of about ancient things that christians did and their barbarism. tell me what have Hindu culture learned even in 21st century?? You fools are still doing the same thing, to the world you try to show image of India as a modern society when majority of India is still living in 12th century where WOMEN ARE THOUGHT OF COMMODITY. Their role is till confined to the house and they are abused by the so called great followers of hinduism.
And dude, there is major difference between US and India, because in cultures like US, what you see is what you get. But cultures like India, what is shown on top is only a fake mirror and truth is far from it. Just because in India sati was outlawed and child labor was banned and dowry was illegal by LAW, doe snot mean that is actually happening in that country. Things are still the same in India, women are still being burned in many parts of the country for dowry, I SEE CHILD SLAVES WORKING IN DHABAS, HOTELS and other places all over India. Poor people are still used like slaves, it is just that hindu people are so ashamed of doing this openly, they give it name of culture, traditions and system of the society.
India is more racist than USA. Indians don’t even like each other, people from south are mistreated all over India, in north or mid east. And you are telling me hindu religion is the better religion than christianity?? You don’t even know how to live in peace with each other, at least christians in USA are united as one…so shut up!! Look at how many people die in India because of internal clashes and then tell me how much UNITED HAS HINDUISM MADE ALL OF INDIA??
I am not blaming all of India’s problems on Muslims. The problem of corruption, criminalization of politics, casteism in Hindu society are not at all a creation of Muslims. But only a fool will deny the fact that women immolating themselves started from Mohammad bin Qasim’s invasion in AD 712.
As for putting blame on others- MUSLIMS BLAME ALL THEIR PROBLEMS ON OTHERS- THEY CLAIM THAT 9/11 WAS DONE BY JEWS OR US GOVT, 26/11 BY INDIA AND ISREAL, and all other acts by ‘others’ to blame Muslims.
Muslims used to sell women in markets- there were slave markets- Hindus as well as Muslims as slaves. The drunkardness, sex-maniacs, mass murders, looting of the people,kidnapping of women all were prevalent during Muslims rule.
Hinduism may or may not be bad. (You are a perfect example of a bad Hindu. The language which you use is horrible- as admitted by yourself). Your claim that Hindus were equally brutal with Muslim girls and women in Gujarat is completely rubbish. Though on few occasions it may have happened- no girls’ breasts were cut off. Had it really happened- the media would have gone downtown with it- even if it doesnt happen- media lies about it-like the pregnant woman’s womb case. Pakistanis raped 3,00,000 (3 lakh) Hindu women in the 1971 genocide in Bangladesh and killed lakhs of Hindus- even without any cause as Godhra- whereas Hindus in Gujarat killed 700- odd Muslims even after the brutal roasting in Godhra and hundreds of Hindus were also killed.
Deepak- HINDUS were oppressed during British rule- Britain impoverished India- looted all of India’s wealth. See the book “The Economic Drain” written in the 1890s.
I will never say that Hinduism is the best. But it is far better than Islam and Christianity- which constantly threaten others with HELL. At least Hindus dont say that all non-Hindus will go to Hell for being non-HIndus- which is a basic teaching of Islam and Christianity. At least Hindus dont believe that GOD IS JEALOUS and worshipping God in the form of idols = worshipping someone other than God. At least nowhere is it mentioned in Hindu books to rape women- as taught in BIBLE ISIAH 13 14-16 and in QURAN as well (Sex with slaves is allowed- even if they are married).
I know that USA is far far better than India. That doesnt mean CHRISTIANITY IS BETTER or ISLAM is better. What Indian Muslims made of their homeland- Pakistan is for all to see. And look at Bangladesh- the filthy impoverished country with so much overpopulation and corruption. NOWHERE DOES HINDUISM INSIST ON ANYTHING- LIKE MONOTHEISM, POLYTHEISM or anything- unlike Islam and Christianity. If you feel that we Hindus are the worst- then look at Pakistan and Bangladesh to know what Indian Muslims do. Yes Delhi is the RAPE CAPITAL of India. But in Pakistan 75 % of women in jails are RAPE VICTIMS for not being able to produce male witnesses to prove rape! Islam needs male witnesses- which is impossible since rapists dont rape in presence of witnesses- and rape victims are jailed for extra marital sex. Even in India you saw IMRANA- a married woman raped by her father in law- and the seminary Deoband punishes the victim and your SECULAR Mulayam Singh Yadav openly justifiying the fatwa against a raped woman- and Congress, BSP (All led by women- including the ROMAN CATHOLIC SONIA) refusing to condemn the fatwa against a helpless raped Muslim woman.
And dont tell me that there are no rapes in USA. USA soldiers INVADED IRAQ AND RAPED 14 year olds in Iraq.
AMERICAN RAPE STATISTICS
Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. (For India- its 54 minutes)
In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault. (NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)
Over the last two years, more than 787,000 women were the victim of a rape or sexual assault. (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S.Department of Justice, 1996.)
The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States wereraped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996.)
http://www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm
And CHRISTANS like Pat Robertson JUSTIFID THE HAITI EARTHQUAKE as God’s punishment on the grounds that the people prayed to Satan to free them from SLAVERY in 1800. What a logic! See the inhumanity in such people in case of tragedies. http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/pat_robertson_blames_quake_on_haitians_satanic_pact_20100113/
JUST BECAUSE USA IS FAR BETTER THAN INDIA doesnt mean Christians are better than Hindus. They insist that Jesus is the only son of God. I just wanted to tell you- that though in the past Hindus did wrong acts- like SATI, or atrocities on Dalits, CHRISTIANS DID FAR FAR WORSE- by enslaving people, raping women, battering to death babies, mass slaughtering of CRORES OF PEOPLE in SOUTH AMERICA and even North America, even in Europe they spread by sword, Portuguese atrocities in Goa, etc etc. India at least got rid of all that by 1829- officially. But in USA this was legal and INSTITUTIONALIZED until as late as the latter half of the 20th century. And why go for USA- see what they did in SOUTH AFRICA until 1991. And Islam’s history is full of blood- murders, massacres, blinding and killing of real brothers for POWER- raping the women, slavery, etc. Their Prophet himself was a RAPIST, PEDOPHILE, LECHER, Muslims proudly claim Him to be an Ideal Man.
YOU FOOL- its not that I dont respect other cultures. I quite like the freedom and values of Western societies. But I certainly dont respect BURQA CLAD WOMEN and BAN on TV AND PICTURES AS TAUGHT IN ISLAM- and OPEN ORDERING OF RAPE as in Bible and Quran. I also accept the faults in India- not like Muslims to blame everything on others- or like Christians to feel superior to everything.
Oh yea, I am sure those so called BRAVE HINDU women loved to be sati
When a society is filled with chauvanist hindus, women have no choice but to accept such things. Like, women in muslim countries, do burqua, no ogood looking woman likes to hide her face, but in those countries, they have no choice so they do it.
, you will blame SATI on muslims… why would women burn themselves always death fo their husband, if slavery was happening, why didn’t all the women were burned?? everything according to you in India is muslims fault.
Delhi is known as the rape capital of India, I am sure all the muslims are doing rapes, since hindu males dicks are like 3 inches and only get hard when they see their own sisters naked lolzzz..
Yes, christians also have had brutal practices, and even still they do, all cultures do, BUT THE REAL SHAME IS HOW YOU ARE PUTTING ALL THE BLAMES FOR HINDU SUFFERINGS ON MUSLIMS.
You are telling me that hindus are so innocent and peace loving people and every crime done in india is fault of muslims
Hindus are violent people also, all cultures are. For your information, hindus tortured muslim women to umimaginable levels in 2002, and this is more recent that anything in history, for exmaple young girls age 12-15 were raped, womens breast cut off, gang rapes in day broad light, while SAYING JAI SRI RAM….
Thanks for metnioning slavery in USA, and racism that is prevelant here. But you forget to mention the strong laws that government puts on its people to minimize it. Dude Indians are more racist than white men, you guys are racist towards your own peiople.
Have you seen how a KAAM WALI isn treated at a house, or how a RICKSHA WALA is treated on the street? as if they are 3rd grade peoople, they are abused slapped and beaten. Merican are racist towards other races, how fucked up is that Hindus and indians are raciost towards other indians??
India still have slavery also, look at how many CHILD LABORERS there are, kids are sold into prostitution from kolkatta to kanya kumari.
India is number 1 in TRAFFICKING OF WOMEN FOR SEX. This is is what hinduism teaches you?? to sell your women to arab world for sex slavery?? Go look at the golbal standings how india is worst among human rights abusse.
And you are talking about america promotiing racism?? How many people die in India each year because of communal violence?? and How many people have you seen deing in USA since september 11 because of communal violence?? The number is USA since 9/11 could barely be a hundred is not, in india I can blindly count over 5,000 people dead major GUJARAT GENONCIDE.
Stop boasting your fake hindu pride, for one, our religion is so great that we don’t even have one idol. freaking 33 million gods!! gotta be kidding me, this is where our slave mentality comes in mind. We like to make BABUS and masters for everything in life, thats we we cannot pray to one god, we need different gods in different parts iof the country.
INDIA IS A COUNTY OF DIVERSITY WITHOUT UNITY, thats why north hates south, east hates west, we don;t speak one common language. This is how india is united??
LOOK AT USA, it is 3 times bigger than INDIA, but the whole country speaks one language, the country is UNITED, even if they are rasist to foreigners.
Would you not be rasicst to other if they all started coming to your land? BAL TACKREY and his suporters started beating north indians for getting jobbs in india, and you tell me what is so surprising is some americans feel the same way??
HINDUS OF MAHARASHTRA are doing this to their own people from NORTH, but AMERICANS do it to outsiders and its shame??
Dude you make me feel pity for slaves like you and the way you are trying so hard to people to belive how great hinduism is. Remember, no one else in this world really likes to know about hinduism except in some universities. LOOK AT CHINA, EGYPT, GREECE, ROME, these are cultures everyone wants to learn and understand.
How many movies have ever been made internationally on hinduism in mainstream?? comapre this to chinese culture, egypt and other world cultures, and you will realize where India and hindus stand.
IF YOU CANNOT LOVE OTHER CULTURES, AND YOUR BLIND EGO MAKES YOU THINK HINDUISM IS THE BEST RELIGIION IN WORLD, WELL THE NO ONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD WILL RESPECT YOU AND YOUR FAITH. BECAUSE TRUTH IS, OTHER RELIGIONS ARE AS GOOD AS HINDUISM IF NOT BETTER!!
Ya- back to our real ways arent we. Abuse Hindus for practising Sati- which was in practice only for few hundred years- from 1200-1829- it was ABOLISHED ALSO BY HINDUS like Rajaram Mohan Roy. And Sati was started because of sex-crazy Muslim invaders who used to rape and plunder Hindu women and distribute them as SLAVES in markets. To prevent that- women used to immolate themselves- and it was far better to do that than live as slaves of Muslims. (ACTUAL SLAVES). This degenerated into sati- and for your information, majority of women were willing to die- like Shivaji Maharaj’s mother Jijabai insisted on sati in 1664 but she was dissuaded by others. Unlike women in USA and Europe who were HORRIBLE TORTURED-needles inserted in their eyes, and other parts tortured- much against their wishes. Of course- their willingness to die was condemnable. As expected- you will never condemn Christians for burning and torturing women- and Muslims for slavery. AND AS FOR YOU DUMB, Chritianity institutionalizes RAPE, Hinduism doesnt do that. And how did Americans treat BLACKS IN USA? AND IN REST of THe world? BLACKS WERE KEPT AS SLAVES IN HAITI AND USA AND OTHER AREAS. At least we never did that. Sati was abolished in 1829. Slavery continued until 1860 at least in USA. And even men like Martin Luther King were assasinated for demanding Black rights- in this 20th century USA institutionalized RASCISM.
WHAT A slave of USA- who proudly lives in a country where rascism was institutionalized until the 20th century…
Hey at least Christianity didn’t follow SATI PRATHA, where as to burn alive a innocent woman along with her husband.
everyone talks against and debates Christianity in America…your Indians and your kind slave Indians know little about USA.
even IF THEY BURN WITCHES IN OLD TIMES, YOU BURNT INNOCENT WOMEN IN THE NAME OF sati.
Ramesh it is shame for people like to even debate with a filth and irrelevant man like you, who bases his debates on Bible and old testaments.
If hindu religion is so great, did it not teach your hindus not to piss on the street corners?? or how to keep your country clean?? Did it not teach you maths and science??
You bark so much about hindu books and vedas and all that crap, India can;t even make its own technologies, everything it does is because it uses Russian help and eventually comes out with something and the world thinks india is very high tech in technology.
Your looser are only followers and not innovators, same way Hindu religion is not great religion, I am hiindu but I don;t blindly go proud about it, because I have seen people of my own religion who treat their women like shit. Is this what you so called true hindus learned from RAM??
I have seen many people of other religion in india celebrate our festivals like holi, diwali and all, how many hindus actually have guts to take part in any muslim festivals like id??
Giving national holidays and subsidies for HAJJ does not make your religion any great religion, if you have a great religion, then you would have capability to live and enjoy other religions too.
If muslims don;t accept hinduism, you assholes are same, you can never appreciate their festivals and their beleifs, so shut up.
You don’t make sense and your kind is going down, because if tier was any truth is this site and your debates, the reality in India would be on your side, not on the other side…
Teachings in Bible:
Old Testament, ISAIAH 13; 14-16: The Lord commanded, “The foreigners living in Babylon will run away to their own countries scattering like deer escaping from hunters, like sheep without a shepherd. Anyone who is caught will be stabbed to death. While they look on helplessly, their babies will be battered to death, their houses will be looted and their wives will be raped.”
New Testament, Luke 12; 51-53: Jesus said, “Do you suppose that I came to bring peace to the World? No, not peace, but division. From now on a family of five will be divided, three against two and two against three. Fathers will be against their sons, and sons against their fathers; mothers will be against their daughters and daughters against their mothers; mothers-in-law will be against their daughters-in-law, and daughters-in-law against their mothers-in-law.”
New Testament, LUKE 22; 36:Jesus said, “Whoever has a purse or a bag must take it; and whoever has no sword must sell his coat and buy one.”
New Testament, MARK 16; 15-16: Jesus said, “Go throughout the whole world and preach the Gospel to all mankind. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.”