Gujarat Riots: The True Story

The Truth of the 2002 riots

The Godhra Carnage

Difference between Godhra and other tragic incidents

Several people- unable to understand the sufferings of the Hindu society- have asked- “Why did riots occur only after Godhra? Why was nobody targeted after the Akshardham temple attack- or after the attacks on Mumbai on 26 November 2008?” Well- the answers are many.

Myth 4: The Gujarat police turned a blind eye to the rioting

Posted on May 22, 2008 - Filed Under 12-Concocted Lies and Myths by the media | 37 Comments

Fact: Even though the situation was terrible, the police performed its work extremely efficiently. The police force was woefully insufficient, despite the deployment of the entire police force. India Today (18 March 2002)reported:

“Ahmedabad has a police force of 6,000, including 1,500 armed personnel. In addition, the entire state has just four companies (530 jawans) of the Rapid Action Force (RAF) of which only one company could be spared for Ahmedabad. Considering that the mobs that simultaneously surfaced at nearly half a dozen places numbered from 2,000 to 10,000, the forces proved woefully inadequate. At one point on February 28 there were at least 25,000 people targeting the Muslim localities in Ahmedabad alone.”

 See link: http://www.indiatoday.com/itoday/20020318/cover.shtml

  Even in its infamous article misquoting Narendra Modi as having said “Every action has equal and opposite reaction” (Which Narendra Modi never did), The Times of India reported, “The sparse police presence looked like a drop in the ocean of violence.” This despite the deployment of the entire police force. The Hindu also reported the next day that on 28 February “Mob fury reached its crescendo” and “The situation seemed to slip out of hand” and “Police were outnumbered by the rioters“. Same was the report of The Telegraph, The Tribune.

   The Times of India reported on 2nd March 2002 on events on 1st March (Friday)- “Neither the Army nor the shoot-at-sight orders given to Gujarat Police could stop riots on Friday 1st March…” And this was on 1st March 2002 when the violence was much less than 28 Feb (Thursday). If even the Army and shoot-at-sight orders couldn’t stop the violence when it was much less, then what must have been the situation on 28 Feb when the Army was not present in the day and the violence was much more?

 Despite this, the police fired more than 1000 rounds (exact official number given now is 1496) and burst 4297 tear gas shells on 28 Feb. More than 180 people were saved at Ehsan Jafri’s place and more than 900 out of the 1,000 in Naroda Patiya were saved. The police fired more than 3,900 rounds in the first three days alone and fired 6500 rounds of tear gas shells. (Despite the presence of the Army for 2 out of 3 days ). As many as 98 people were shot dead by the police in the first three days, majority of whom are Hindus. For the complete period of rioting, despite the presence of the Army for 73 out of 74 days, the police fired as many 15,000 tear gas shells- the exact number is 15,369 and a total of 10,500 rounds- exact number 10,559. Out of the total people killed in the riots, about 20 % have been shot dead by the police. According to official records, 199 people were killed in police firing of whom 101 were killed in the first week.

 Infact- the encyclopaedia wikipedia reports-based on sound sources-that as many as 200 policemen laid their lives trying to quell the violence during the riots. We feel this number is not possible.

Official records show that 83 officers, 419 men and 50 Home Guard were injured- total 552 injured. How many gave their lives is not told.

 Out of the 25,486 accused, the Gujarat police arrested as many as 25,204 people. As of 28 April 2002, as per The Times of India there were 35,552 arrested including 27,901 Hindus. Finally there were 4274 cases registered, i.e. FIRs and the number of people arrested was 19,200 Hindus and 7,799 Muslims to get a total of 26,999 i.e. almost 27,000 arrests. This is slightly different from October 2005 when 25,204 were arrested.  This clearly shows the efficiency of the Gujarat police. On March 1st and 2nd and afterwards, Muslims too rioted and they too were killed in police firing.

The Gujarat police saved as many as 2,500 Muslims in Sanjeli, a town in North Gujarat, 5,000 Muslims in Bodeli, in Vadodara and about 10,000 Muslims in Viramgam. A total of at least 24,000 Muslims were saved. Infact, some sources say that 24,000 were saved in the first three days alone and the total number is even higher. Police officials themselves suffered injuries in trying to save the Muslims, as reported by the weekly India Today.

See link: http://www.india-today.com/itoday/20020422/states.shtml

There are many other instances as well of people being saved- as per official records. Some of them are:

a) 5,000 people from the Noorani Mosque area were saved by Ahmedabad Police
b) 240 people were saved at Sardarpura of Mehsana district and shifted to safer places
c) 450 were saved in Pore and Nardipur villages of Gandhinagar district, and shifted to safer places
d) 400 were saved in a Madrasa at Bhavnagar
e) 1,500 people were saved from Fatehpura village of Vadodara district
f) 3,000 people were saved and shifted from Kwant village of Vadodara district

Hindus were also saved from violent Muslim mobs in places like Modasa, Bharuch, Jamalpur area of Ahmedabad etc.

On February 28, the police shot dead 10 Hindus in Ahmedabad alone. The leading most English daily from South India, and an extremely anti-Hindu newspaper, ‘The Hindu’ reported this on 1st March 2002. By 1st March, the police had shot dead ‘at least 17 people’ in Ahmedabad alone-as reported by The Hindu dated 2nd March 2002.

 On 2nd March 2002-police firing resulted in 47 deaths-as reported by The Hindu the next day-i.e. 3rd March 2002.

 See link: http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/2002/03/03/stories/2002030303020100.htm

 The Indian Express dated 3rd March reported that 77 people were killed in Police/Army firing by 2nd March 2002.

 The steps taken to control the violence were-

 1-The Indian Express dated 28th February 2002 reported that the State Government had deployed the Rapid Action Force in Ahmedabad and other sensitive areas and the Centre sent in CRPF personnel on February 27 itself even before a single riot had taken place. This was also reported by Mid Day dated 28 February and also The Times of India.

See link: http://www.mid-day.com/news/2002/feb/21232.htm

This is mentioned in 3rd catagory- 7th paragraph

2- The Hindu reported in its issue dated 28th February 2002 that “Shoot-at-sight” orders had been given in Godhra on February 27 itself. And so did ALL the English dailies that day. Also read the sentence ” the state government has appealed to the people to maintain peace.”

Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/2002/02/28/stories/2002022803070100.htm

3-The Hindustan Times reported in its issue dated 28 February 2002 that the entire police force of 70,000 was deployed in Gujarat on 27 February itself after the shocking massacre in Godhra- in view of apprehensions that riots might break out. This was also reported by British daily The Telegraph the same day.

Link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/1386341/Hindus-massacred-on-blazing-train.html

See second last paragraph of this report.

4-827 preventive arrests were made on the evening of February 27 itself on Chief Minister Narendra Modi’s orders on his return to Ahmedabad from Godhra. This was reported by weekly India Today dated 18 March 2002 which did not give the number (827 arrests) but mentioned preventive arrests. Even the SIT admitted 827 preventive arrests.

5-On February 28 -despite the deployment of the entire police force, the CRPF personnel and the Rapid Action Force-the situation slipped out of control, according to The Hindu dated 1st March 2002.

See link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/03/01/stories/2002030103030100.htm

6-Despite the fact that the situation slipped out of control, the mob sizes were unprecedented and the police were overwhelmingly outnumbered, the police did its best. The police fired more than 1,000 rounds on the first day of the riots-i.e. February 28.

Link: Same as Number 5′s link- but this doesn’t mention 1000 + rounds which were fired that day- including 600 in Ahmedabad.

7-The Hindu reported in its issue dated 1st March 2002 that at least 10 persons were believed to have been killed in police firing in Ahmedabad alone by evening of February 28. ( Same link as number 5, paragraphs 2 and 9 from the top).

5 Hindus were shot dead outside Ehsan Jafri’s house on Feb 28, according to India Today weekly dated 18 March 2002 and also from The Times of India‘s online report on 28 February.

8-Curfew was clamped in Godhra on 27 February itself-as reported by The Hindu dated 28 February 2002. Also reported by all English dailies- such as Times of India, dated 28 Feb.

Link: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-2256789,prtpage-1.cms or

 http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020228/main1.htm

9-An indefinite curfew was clamped in 26 cities and towns in the State, including parts of Ahmedabad, Surat, Baroda, Rajkot, Nadiad, Anand and Kaira on February 28 in addition to the indefinite curfew in force in Godhra since February 27-according to The Hindu dated 1st March 2002- and every English daily the next day and also weeklies- like India Today- which covered events till Feb 28 in its issue dated 11 March 2002.

Link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/03/01/stories/2002030103030100.htm

10- The Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, frantically called the Army units to Ahmedabad on February 28-as reported by the The Hindu dated 1st March 2002.

See link: http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/2002/03/01/stories/2002030103030100.htm

See 8th paragraph from the top.

11-The Indian Express and The Hindu both reported that Army units started arriving in Ahmedabad on the night of February 28-in their issues the next day-i.e. 1st March 2002. This shows that the Army units reached Ahmedabad so quickly-that the newspapers had the time to report their arrival on February 28 itself itself and publish it on 1st March!

(Same link as number 5- 8th paragraph from the top)

12-The Army staged a flag march in Ahmedabad on 1st March 2002 at 11:30 AM-as reported by weekly India Today in its issue dated 18th March 2002. The Hindu and The Indian Express and all major dailies also reported that the Army staged flag marches in Ahmedabad and also Vadodara on 1st March 2002.

13-The Army began flag marches in the worst-affected areas of Ahmedabad, Baroda, Rajkot and Godhra cities and the `shoot at sight’ order was extended to all 34 curfew-bound cities and towns in Gujarat on 1st March 2002-as per The Hindu dated 2nd March 2002.

 See link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/03/02/stories/2002030203050100.htm

 14-The Gujarat police fired a total of around 4,000 rounds in the first three days alone. This-despite the presence of the Army for 2 out of the 3 days. The police also arrested more than 4,000 people in the first 3 days alone, majority of whom are Hindus. As on 6 May 2002  35,000 people had been arrested for rioting by the police- the highest ever in Gujarat, not even in 1969 and 1985 were so many arrested. On 28 April 2002  The Times of India reported that 9954 Hindus and 4035 Muslims were arrested by police as substantive arrests and 17947 Hindus and 3616 Muslims were arrested as a preventive measure.  This gives a total of 27,901 Hindus and 7651 Muslims arrested as on 28 April 2002, a total of 35,552 arrests- the highest ever in Gujarat.

See link: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/More-fall-prey-to-police-firings-in-Gujarat/articleshow/8283550.cms

15-The Gujarat police shot dead 98 people in the first three days, majority of whom are Hindus.

16-The Hindu reported in its issue dated 4th March 2002 that only 2 deaths were reported on 3rd March in the entire state and the violence has ended on 3rd March 2002. Thus the Gujarat government managed to control the situation in 3 days even after the shocking massacre in Godhra- while it took previous Congress governments 6 months to stop the riots in 1969 and 1985 even without any cause as Godhra.

  In an interview given by Narendra Modi to Outlook magazine in its issue dated 18 March 2002-

Were you playing the fiddle while Gujarat burned?

No. Contrary to what is now being projected, I brought sanity within 72 hours of the violent outbreak…”

Note Narendra Modi’s sentence “No. Contrary to what is now being projected, I brought sanity within 72 hours of the violent outbreak.” In other words, the projection against Modi started AFTER the riots. We have already seen the reports of the newspapers like The Hindu, The Telegraph to note that there were no allegations against Narendra Modi or the Gujarat Government at the time of the actual riots. They started much later.  Doordarshan news said on 3rd March 2002 (Sunday) at night in the English bulletin: “Violence has ended in a record time in Ahmedabad…Only 3 days…In the past it would take many weeks… Today (Sunday) curfew was relaxed, people bought items from bazaar…”. No allegation against the state government but praise of controlling violence in just 3 days! All accusations on Narendra Modi and demands for his resignation, dismissal started AFTER the riots. This was because, the media wanted some scapegoat to be made for the riots. It wanted Modi to sack a few police officers, drop a minister or two. But Modi did nothing of the sort. He did not blame anyone, did not make anyone a scapegoat.

 

  Even the SIT appointed by the Supreme Court said that ‘All efforts were made to save Ehsan Jafri’. It is common sense that if even the Army and the shoot-at-sight orders given to the Gujarat police could not control the violence on 1 March, Friday, when it was much less, the situation on 28 February, Thursday, must have been far worse when the violence was much more and the Army was not present in the day. Since this argument could not be refuted, some liars resorted to tricks and theatrics showing two police officers unable to reach Chamanpura from Revdi Bazaar, hiding completely the fact that reinforcements arrived, district police personnel rushed to the spot, and the Fire Brigade too.

These liars also hide the fact that the police killed 5 people outside his house, saved 180+ people out of 250 in Jafri’s housing complex, saved 900 out of 1,000 in Naroda Patiya. This Times of India report POSTED ONLINE at 2:34 PM of 28 February also says that police fired on the crowd injuring 6, who were taken to hospital where 3 were critical at that time, and ultimately 5 died.They also hide the fact that the Police fired 1000+ rounds on 28 Feb, including 600+ in Ahmedabad. 10 Hindus were shot dead and 16 injured on 28 Feb and 2 were killed in police firing in Nadiad and Godhra on 28 Feb. There were 4297 tear gas shells also fired on 28 Feb, and suppressing and concealing all these facts, the liars claim that “Police did total inaction”. If all these facts are not police action, we wonder what can be termed as police action.

Thus some liars did theatrics by showing records and graphs of calls, but hid the fact that the calls were heeded to and reinforcements sent, and all efforts made to save lives.  Theatrics and lying to delude people are being practised by people who have no answer to the site’s arguments on merit.

A must read article on the role of the Gujarat Government in controlling violence is:

http://www.gujaratriots.com/29/role-of-the-government-in-controlling-violence/

(An article on some facts about the media can be read hereNDTV is CPM Today“. And another article which is worth reading is The channels strategy of attacks. Note that these articles are purely the view of the blogger and not of Gujaratriots.com )

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Comments

37 Responses to “Myth 4: The Gujarat police turned a blind eye to the rioting”

  1. 1
    Your mom UNITED STATES Says:

    Liar.

  2. 2
    Rajesh Nayak INDIA Says:

    You are the biggest lier- Mr “Your mom”. What source do you have to deny that the police saved thousands of Muslims?

  3. 3
    Rajesh Nayak INDIA Says:

    http://www.india-today.com/itoday/20020422/states.shtml
    Read this link. It proves that the police saved thousands of Muslims from certain death in Sanjeli, Bodeli and Viramgam.

  4. 4
    Naveen INDIA Says:

    U r quoting from a report in India today to prove ur line of thought. Dont u know India today is a staunch BJP supporting publication just like Outlook is a staunch Congress supporter? Get links from neutral sources to prove what ur views.

  5. 5
    Rahul Kedia INDIA Says:

    Naveen, India today is a staunch BJP supporting publication? Ha ha haha-get your facts right. India Today is one of the most bitter critics of Narendra Modi-and ever after the riots-it has called the Gujarat riots as a massacre of Muslims. It called Narendra Modi an ‘Untouchable’. Just because this biased anti-BJP magazine reported that police saved thousands of Muslims-you call it a ‘staunch BJP supporting magazine’. This shows your bias too. And besides-you can go in Sanjeli town in Gujarat and ask the Muslims there what happened on 1st March 2002. You can read Gujarati dailies to know that police saved thousands of Muslims in Sanjeli, Bodeli and Viramgam. Calling India Today as pro-BJP-with Arun Purie as Editor-the man who launched severe attacks on BJP for the Ramjanmabhoomi movement-and on L K Advani-reveals your mental bankruptcy.

  6. 6
    Naveen INDIA Says:

    Yes at first IT was anti BJP but later on it became pro Bjp ..this is a fact I know from the biased articles from that mag.

    I am not saying that the guj police didnt help save some guj Muslims but majorly they were siding with the Hindu mobs or looking the other way when the Hindu mobs attacked Muslims and this is a fact. It is also a fact the Muslims attacked Hindus in some areas.

    Well as for my mental bankruptcy, I leave it to the judgement of the netizens of this world…let them decide whether if its me or you. bye for ever…

  7. 7
    Zindadil UNITED STATES Says:

    The police turned a blind eye yesterday, some day someone will sure turn a blind eye on them. Jiski laathi uski bhains. kal ko Hindustan chotey chotey states mein batwara hoga. Sikh in Punjab, Kannadigas in Karnataka, Marathas in Maharashtra, Orissans in Orissa and so and so forth. Kalkoi aur ayega aur baazi maar ley jayega. Jaisey Jaichandra ney kiya tha, waisey hi kal ko ga. History repeats. Tab lado k doosrey sey. Duniy to yahi dekehygi ki key state ka Hindu doosrey state key hindu sey ladh raha hai, aur wo bhi kiskey liye, language key liye. Main Gujju, tu Maratha(ghati),malabari and Madrasi. Milzhulkar raho aur desh ko agey badhao. Hindu Muslim Sikh aur Isai saath saath jiyo. Kahey ko aaj minorities key naak mein dam kar rahey ho, kalko aisa nah ho ki ey sab tum logon sey tang aakar kuch kar na baithey,

  8. 8
    DEEPAK UNITED STATES Says:

    India is among the top countries with human rights violations…with hatred filled in almost most Indians, this country is only for people who blindly follow one fascist idea…here poor are treated like shit, caste system still prevails, young girls are thrown into prostitution, not even that, india is doing quite well now in trafficking of poor girls outside the country for sex slavery, with parents selling them because of poverty…both congress and BJP keep blaming each other and are cutting India’s legs and just trying to secure their own cheap goals…this is India, the incredible India…lol

  9. 9
    Vivek UNITED STATES Says:

    Agar Gujrat Police ne Hindu logon ki side li to kya hua?Har bar Hindu hi mar jaye kya?partition ke time 3 lakhs hindu mare gaye the uska kya?kayi lakhon Kashmiri Hindu Pandit kashmir se bahar nikale gaye uska kya?the word ‘secularism’ is not made only for Hindus.Other religion’s people should also learnt from it.

  10. 10
    Ankur AUSTRALIA Says:

    Publications, media and all the sources they have their own ways to picture the scene. What makes you to comment on riots by producing such facts here ? You think u ppl talk sense when u say its hindus or muslims who were responsible ? DO YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND POLITICS ? someone is refering a link to prove police was ryt n sm1 is refuting by giving another fact.
    Ha ! wise ppl of my nation. I ask you all wise men, have you lost ur dearest one just for the name of so called religion or God ? It makes u hate any God or religion when u lost sm1 close. F*** religion who hates humanity, who rape, kill and destroy in the name of God. I am not concluding anything here. Just give a thought.

  11. 11
    JACK INDIA Says:

    Myth 1: 2,000 Muslims were killed in the Gujarat riots
    Myth 2: Muslims were ‘butchered’ in Gujarat
    Myth 3: Whole of Gujarat was burning
    Myth 4: The Gujarat police turned a blind eye to the rioting
    Myth 5: Gujarat police was anti-Muslim
    Myth 6: Gujarat riots were the ‘worst ever massacre’ in India
    Myth 7: Only Muslims were rendered homeless and suffered economically
    Myth 8: The Gujarat government was involved in the riots
    Myth 9: Gujarat riots were like the 1984 anti-Sikh riots
    Myth 10: Gujarat became a dangerous place to live in, in 2002
    Myth 11: In Ehsan Jafri case, women were raped
    Myth 12: The photo of Qutubuddin Ansari is genuine
    Myth 13: Narendra Modi said:”Every action has equal and opposite reaction”
    Myth 14: Sangh Parivar organizations like VHP organized the riots
    Myth 15: Narendra Modi gave free hand to rioters for 3 days

  12. 12
    JACK INDIA Says:

    Truth : 2,000 Muslims were killed in the Gujarat riots
    Truth : Muslims were ‘butchered’ in Gujarat
    Truth : Whole of Gujarat was burning
    Truth : The Gujarat police turned a blind eye to the rioting
    Truth : Gujarat police was anti-Muslim
    Truth : Gujarat riots were the ‘worst ever massacre’ in India
    Truth : Only Muslims were rendered homeless and suffered economically
    Truth : The Gujarat government was involved in the riots
    Truth : Gujarat riots were like the 1984 anti-Sikh riots
    Truth : Gujarat became a dangerous place to live in, in 2002
    Truth : In Ehsan Jafri case, women were raped
    Truth : The photo of Qutubuddin Ansari is genuine
    Truth : Narendra Modi said:”Every action has equal and opposite reaction”
    Truth : Sangh Parivar organizations like VHP organized the riots
    Truth : Narendra Modi gave free hand to rioters for 3 day

    This website is only showing one side of the coin. Saving the image of VHP, RSS, BJP and Sick old Sangh Leaders

  13. 13
    Deepak Says:

    Well said Jack, isn’t it just amazing how everything that happened in GUJARAT according to these slaves is fault of muslims, and these RSS, VHP AND Bajrangis are innocent milk drinking kids?? They were just defending, not to consider VHP gives them weapons and gives them fire arm training, and RSS preaches hatred in shakhas??

    Everything, accoriding to them has an justification, they give number slike police save 5000 here, 2000 there, so total 7000 and everyone should feel good now…WHAT ABOUT THE INNOCENTS WHO STILL DIED IN ROGANIZED KILLING…

    WHAT WERE BJP WORKERS DOING ON 28TH FEB IN STREETS MAKING SURE ALL SHOPS ARE CLOSED??

    WHY WASN’T THERE A CURFEW IN AHMADABAD ON BEXT MORNING ONLY? THIS SITE ITSELF CLAIMS THE SENSITIVITY OF RIOTS IN GUJARAT, A WISE CM WOULD NOT LET ANY ONE IN STREETS!!

    WHY WAS VHP BANDH ALLOWED? WHO ARE THEY TO CALL OF THE BUSINESS??

    WHY WERE DEAD BODIES BROUGHT TO AHMADABAD FROM GODHRA? TO DO A TAMASHA AND CAUSE FUMES IN PEOPLE?

    According to this site, BJP is the best ever thing that happened for India, yet people don’t want them to lead the nation?? Is that so?? is that what happens to good people?? HAHA

    REALITY SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.. ALL NATIONAL COMMISSIONS, NEWS STINGS, REPORTS AND ALL SOCIAL WORKERS ARE ANTI-HINDU?? ANYTHING THAT SPEAKS AGAINST RSS, VHP IS ANTI-HINDU? SAYS WHO?? VHP AND RSS ARE BIGGEST ENEMIES OF HINDUISM!!

  14. 14
    Vivek UNITED STATES Says:

    To,Deepakji(future winner of nobel,social worker,Guru of Karmayog etc),
    For me,Psuedo secularist like you is true enemies of Hinduism and also Hindustan not Sangh Parivar.We will chopped the hands if someone dare to raised it against any Hindus.KHUN KA BADLA KHUN SE.ham aj tak ye nahi karte the issi liye ye Muslim aur christian log Hinduon ke sir par chadkar baithe hue hain.!Mr.HJSP,teach secularism to Muslim people not to us.
    KARMA KARO!Ha Ha Ha! microwave! hu hu hu! Time pass comment! Keep it up.
    Are ha! JACK KO AUR KUCH NA PAKANA WOH PAGAL HO JAYEGA! Ok?
    Jai shree RAM !LONG LIVE HINDUISM!

  15. 15
    deepak UNITED STATES Says:

    Jo KHUN KA BADLA KHUN se lene ki baat karte hain, wo hindu to dur ki baat, insaan bhi nahi hain.

    Sara din RAM RAM ka naam lene walon, pahle RAM ki teachings ko samjho, maryada purshottam RAM ji taught ahinsa, shama aur tyaag.

    RSS is totally oppsite of shama, ahinsa aur tyaag. You guys even give alcholhol to rioters so they kill more ruthlessly, and yes RSS doe stalk about killing minortities ruthlessly in shakhas. What a shame.

    I don;t know how long I can continue on thi site. But just by readingall the frutruation and hatred from your mouth, it makes me wonder what is future for you guys…

    Go feed a hungry muslim or christian child and see how much good you will feel then always keep thinking of wiping them from india.

    Shame! utter shame.

  16. 16
    deepak UNITED STATES Says:

    What is Unbelievable shocking is, even though the site stil lat one pooint feels that what happend post godhra was indeed bad, this animal Vivek not once said that even though fault of muslims at Godhra, what happened in after that was also bad.

    He does not feel that all those innocents who died, suffered at all! To him, they deserved it!! Why?? how did they deserve to die??

    Not once, I saw in his comments accepting that post godhra was indeed unfortunate, he is so proud of people dying, even if muslims at gopdhra did a terrible crime, the aftermath was also as terrible as the Godhra itself, but NOT TO HIM!! NOT TO HIM!!

    Can a soul be this depraved of love and affection?? VIVEK BHAI, IM DONE TALKING WITH YOU FOR A WHILE, MAY BE AFTER A WHILE I WILL ARGUE WITH YOU AGAIN!

  17. 17
    Vivek UNITED STATES Says:

    To,Deepakji,
    Thanks for giving suggestion to me about sex.But for me sex,girlfriend,is not so important. No and never.Even i don’t like the concept of girlfriend.Arrange marriage is best way of getting married.I am supporting Hinduism,is it mean that i am TAPPORI type of fellow?Jo chije muzko achchi nahi lagati uss things se main hamesha dur rahata hun! When i was in college life,i broke up many friend because they were liked to tourchered girls psychologicaly.you are under wrong impression about me thats why i am explaining all this things!
    Badala lena hi human honi ki nishani hain,Deepakji! Jo badla nahi leta wo insan nahi hota!
    Tell me one thing.In Ramayana,main criminal was Ravana.But Prabhu ShreeRam destroyed all his army,Ravana,his son Indrajeet,Kumbhkaran but except Bhibishan.Ok? why? Shree Ramji ko yeh malum tha ke aj in sabko mara to hi iss Aryavart ka kuch accha ho sakata hain! Kya ye RAMJI ka revenge nahi tha?
    Let me give you another example of Mahabharata.The famous war of Mahabharata was fully based on REVENGE.The way BHIMSEN Killed Dussashana was horrible! Ye Badla nahi tha ?
    Think on it properly.Gujarat me start muslim logon ne ki,end
    Bajarang Dal ne kiya!Agar BJD ye nahi karti to un logon ki himmat future me bad jati!
    our prayer says to our motherland that
    TWADI YAY KARYA BADDHAKATIYAMSHUBHAM ASHISHAM DEHI TAT SFURTAYET!
    And our aim is
    VIJAYETRI CHANAHAT SANHATA KARYA SHAKTI | VIDHAYASYA DHARMASYA SAURAKSHANAM!
    Get it?
    Jai Shree Ram! Jai shreeKRISHNA!
    Vandey Mataram!

  18. 18
    Deepak Says:

    Ramji Killed those who cam to fight him, and even then he gave them chance to surrender. You guys killed innocent young babies and women also :(

    Bhishm killed Dusshasan, not his entire family. You guys killed people who had nothing to do with Godhra. :(

    You will do arrange marriage because love is not made for you, u cannot love anything but LOVE TO HATE. :(

  19. 19
    farhana INDIA Says:

    i agree with deepak and jack.. Mr. vivek, i think tou should first remember we are first humans and after that indians.. i think people who bias based on hindus and muslims are uneducated and you are 1 of them.. india would do a lot better without people like you

  20. 20
    Ramesh AUSTRALIA Says:

    Well Farhana- I think danger to India and Humanity is from passages in the Quran- like this-
    “These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), “Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!” (Quran 22: 19-22)

    “And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!” (Quran 48:13)

    ” But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.” (Quran 9:5)

    “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them ” (Quran 8:12)

    “We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.” (Quran 3:151)

    Well Farhana- these are just a few passages. I can quote one hundred more such passages- at least. Instead of blaming Hindus- I think Islam must be condemned for these cruel teachings.

  21. 21
    Amber INDIA Says:

    Dear Ramesh

    I assume that you have gone through the Holy Quran before mentioning these quotes here. I assume that as a adult with stable understanding and normal IQ lebel, you should very well understand what these qoutes actually mean is that one who does not believe in Allah ( Meaning GOD as u understand that muslims call their god so )will be punished like this. These quotes rather mean that the one who does not believe in GOD and not Alaah specifically and follow the path of unrighteous will be punished. Like the ones who committed the crimes in Godhra as well as in whole gujrat riots.
    My friend defending any wrong doings by anyone, no matter what religion, is always wrong.
    Ram Bhagwan, Krishna bhagwan, Jesus Christ, Allah, Guru grant Sahib…. all preached to human being to do what is righteous and willing to Dear Lord.
    Killing and hurting HIS human beings in HIS very name is always wrong. No matter what religion you belong. Insulting HIS creations is insulting HIM only. No matter you pray to Ram, Krishna, Allah, Jesus or any of his name.
    They are all Lords name. Kindly respect them. No matter which religion you follow. You are following his PATH.
    lOVE AND RESPECT WHAT GOD HAS CREATED. NO MATTER PRAY HIM BY WHATEVER NAME YOU WANT TO BUT DON’T DISRESPECT YOUR GOD.
    We all are his children and he has said– Love your brothers and sisters.
    Please do this and lets create a healthy and humble place to live in so that our LORD / BHAGWAN / ALLAH / BABAJI and all the names we have given HIM, can be proud of us.

  22. 22
    Amber INDIA Says:

    Moreover my friend, you don’t have to go in deep of religious books to find out the reason of everything that happened in gujrat, just read these qoutes cited on this website..

    ” 16-The Hindu reported in its issue dated 4th March 2002-that only 2 deaths were reported on 3rd March in the entire state-and the violence has ended on 3rd March 2002. Thus-the Gujarat government managed to control the situation in 3 days-even after the shocking massacre in Godhra-while it took previous Congress governemnts 6 months to stop the riots in 1969 and 1985-even without any cause as Godhra.”

    Kindly understand that the reason for what happened in gujarat or for that matter any where in India earlier is not result of religious diffrences but a result of political diffrences. Don’t let any one take use of our religious feelings for their political gains.

  23. 23
    Ramesh Mantri AUSTRALIA Says:

    Well amber- do you think I have not studied the Quran and Islam?
    Assuming that you are a Hindu- I will repeat my line- “The capacity of Hindus for self-deception is extra ordinary. They will invent any amount of fairytales to avoid facing the fact QURAN TEACHES VIOLENCE and wages war on Hinduism.
    There is not a single verse in the entire Quran which says that- “Unbelievers mean bad people- even if they worship Allah. Believers are good people -even if they worship idols, one God, many Gods, ore no GOD”
    Unbelievers mean those do not believe that Muhammad was a messenger of God- i.e. non-Muslims. These are not the only passages in the Quran which I can quote. There are a total of 3600 such passages out of total 6300 in the Quran which are objectionable.
    IF YOU PRODUCE A SINGLE VERSE IN THE QURAN WHICH SAYS THAT UNBELIEVERS MEAN BAD PEOPLE- EVEN IF THEY ARE IDOLATORS, MONOTHEISTS, POLYTHEISTS OR ATHEISTS- WHILE BELIEVERS ARE GOOD PEOPLE EVEN IF THEY ARE IDOLATORS, MONOTHEISTS, POLYTHEISTS OR ATHEISTS- I will say you have a point.
    The Quran is absolutely clear on its status to non-Muslims. It says-
    “Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin.” (Quran 4:48)
    So MAHATMA GANDHI WILL ROT IN HELL FOREVER BECAUSE HE WAS A POLYTHEIST- WHILE A MUSLIM MURDERER CAN GET MERCY FROM ALLAH.
    Even if a person is indeed wrong and sinful- you think pouring boiling oil and roasting him- and inserting hooked iron rods is proper? This is what Allah promises to do with non-Muslims.
    Dear man- wake up from your slumber. FACE THE PAINFUL TRUTH THAT QURAN TEACHES VIOLENCE AND WAR- and TERRORISM. It promises to wipe out fingertips, and smash necks of people. (8:12)

  24. 24
    Ramesh Mantri AUSTRALIA Says:

    I want to respect humanity and have brotherhood. The one who doesnt want that are ISLAM and Quran- which are violent and cruel- and intolerant.
    And I am an atheist. What does Allah promise to do about atheists?

    What happened in Godhra was not because of any politics- but because ISLAM ORDERS MUSLIMS TO DO SO- ROAST ALIVE CHILDREN AND WOMEN. You have attempted to rationalize (pathetically)
    the Quranic passages that I have given. As a minimum- you could have tried to refute each one one by one. REALLY YOU ARE TOO SCARED TO LOOK AT THE TRUTH- which is too painful.

  25. 25
    Amber AUSTRALIA Says:

    Dear Ramesh

    First of all, I am not a hindu, or a muslim or christian or any one else. I am Indian. A wife and daughter of a army officer. Raised and taught to believe and respect all religions, gods and all holy books. Wished you could have got the same teachings in life.
    Whereas your knowledge of Quran is concerned, I am impressed that you took the pains of going through the whole Quran, but unfortunately you misinterpreted it.
    First and basic fact about Quran is that IT IS ONLY FOR MUSLIMS and not for any other religion or for people who are non-muslims. ANY OTHER PERSON WHO IS A NON-MUSLIM IS NOT IN THE PICTURE IN QURAN.So dont worry Allah has nothing to do with you but yes Mata Rani or Ram Bhagwan might have to do with it.
    If I would have taken each single verse of yours, and would have commented on it, the crux of the story would have been same.
    And yes, calling all muslims as terrorists is also very wrong part. I agree there are few people who do extremely wrong in the name of Allah, but the problem is that they all are ignorant just like you.They all have misinterpreted the verses of Quran just as you did.
    No religion or holy book teaches voilence my friend, I ll say again that Quran says that non-believers in Allah ( As it is talking only about muslims and for NO OTHER RELIGION MY FRIEND, NO OTHER RELIGION )will be punished. And yes criminals like who did all those things to people in Gujarat, or in mumbai riots or anywhere else in the world, deserves to be punished like this. Rotting in hell. I hope you agree with me here.
    My dear friend, I ll pray for that you decide soon and very soon to stop being a ATHEISTS.
    I think that you must have faced something awful in life that made you the way you are and filled your heart with so much hatred. I ll pray to God to give you peace in heart. This is the truth which is painful for me to believe, that my fellowman is in so much pain. I wish it goes away.
    And yes you need to open your eyes to the harsh truth of this world THAT ALL OF THIS WAS A POLITICAL GIMMICK. Please be a enlightened citizen of this nation. And help it grow. Dont blindly believe what politicians say, try seeing the real motive please.
    It is good talking to you, keep writing and take care. Good day

  26. 26
    mhalimz INDIA Says:

    @ Ramesh; Dear Ramesh may I ask U how do U take it for Hindus exclusivly, Please let me challenge if U give a single reference where the word Hindu is used in whole of Holy Quraan. more over if any one goes against oneself, may it be Hitler in Germany, Modi in Gujrat, Amarica in Thailand, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel in Jerusalem all retaliated with there opponents, but all of them retaliated for the lust of power and not for the right reasons. Simelarly Almighty has every right to retaliate His oponents in like manner, but remember HE doesn’t retaliate for fals reason. As Mohammed (bpuh) didn’t do that instead he pleaded to his follower;
    [1]- “Do not kill any old person, any child or any woman”
    [2]. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries” or
    [3]- “Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship.”
    Infact you have searched only negative points of Quraan you should have searched positve ones also and U maight have found lot many like;
    {Holy Qura’an (5: 32)}
    If anyone slew a person unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear Signs yet even after that many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
    [Holy Qura’an: ((6:34)]
    Indeed, many messengers were rejected before you, but they stood patient against their rejection, and they were persecuted until Our help came to them.
    [Holy Qura’an: ((2:45)]
    Seek help in patience and prayer; and truly it is hard save for the humble-minded,
    [Holy Qura’an: (2: 155 to 157)]
    (155) “And, certainly. We shall test you with something of fear and hunger, and with loss of wealth, life and production. And gladden those who have patience, with prophecy of a good future.
    (156)’ Those who, when any adversity confronts them, say, ‘We do indeed belong to Allah; and indeed are we to return to Him.
    (157) Those are the ones upon whom are the blessings from their Lord and His grace; and those are the ones that are rightly guided. ”
    [Holy Qura’an: (7; 87)]
    And if there is a party of you, which believeth in that wherewith I (the prophet) have been sent, and there is a party which believeth not, then have patience until Allah judge between us. He is the best of all who deal in judgment.
    [Holy Qura’an: (16; 115)]
    And have patience, (O Muhammad), for lo! Allah loseth not the wages of the good. So have patience (O Muhammad)! Allah’s promise is the very truth, and let not those who have no certainty make thee impatient
    [Holy Qura’an:(70:5) But be patient (O Muhammad) with a patience fair to see

    [Holy Qura’an:(73:10) And bear with patience what they utter, and part from them with a fair leave-taking.If mody also retaliated in a right manner that is against the Muslims for their atrocious act & cruelty then Mulims shouldn’t Bear any grudge with him. But it must be Established beyond doubt in HC

  27. 27
    pratik INDIA Says:

    i now started to think that this dipak is one of the terrorist ….he don’t even know what he is saying…sorry for my language he even don’t love india …
    andfor other why are you guys always give advice to Hindu peoples what should they do …you do not have dare to say against other people ..because you very well know only Hindus will hear this peacefully…
    we never said that kill entire community but only those who are guilty…
    and by the way muslim terrorist kills the people they do not watch whom they are killing old, women or even youngs…so do not ever blame that we kill any family because of any rivalary… that was anger..TIT FOR TAT…so if you want be your self called nonsecular convince boyh the side because muslims and hindu killed together in riots….
    and if you have dare then go and post same comment on jehadi….

  28. 28
    pratik INDIA Says:

    @amber: by posting such a comment do not think your self as a real civilian of India ..if you want equality then apply it..you are talking same non sense we hears from them for years….we know what is peace and want it… but we also has human right and for fight for justice..next talk about reality not your dreamy fairy tale

  29. 29
    Australian Hindu AUSTRALIA Says:

    The passages in the Quran which teach tolerance were revealed when Muhammad and his followers were in a minority in Mecca. They are early Meccan verses. The tone in later Medinan verses when Muhammad became very powerful is totally different. It is written in the Quran that if there is a difference between verses, follow the one which comes later. (“We replace them with better verses”)!
    There are many contradictory verses in the Quran that can be quite confusing. This ambiguity allows Muslims to have their personalized “divine guidance” based on their own preferences. Those who like tolerance or want to present Islam as a tolerant religion can quote parts of the Quran that advocates tolerance, while the hardliners, the fundamentalists and even the terrorists can quote those parts of the Quran that foments hate and killing of the disbelievers. Therefore ironically everyone can find what he is looking for in that book. And they call this the “miracle” of Quran!

    Let us compare both sides of Quran:

    In Surah 73:10 God tells Mohammad to be patient with his opponents, “Be patient with what they say, and part from them courteously”. While in Surah 2:191 God orders him to kill his opponents, “kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.” In Surah 2:256 God tells Mohammad not to impose Islam by force, “There is no compulsion in religion”, Then again in verse 193 He tells his messenger to kill whoever rejects Islam, “Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s”. In Surah 29:46 God tells Mohammad to speak nicely to people of the Book (Christians and Jews), “Argue with people of the book, other than evil doers, only by means of what are better! and say, we believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you. Our God is the same as your God, and we are surrendered to Him.” But in Surah 9:29 Allah tells him to fight the people of the Book, “Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day… and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior”.

    Muhammad gives no justification for this discrepancy in the Quran and the change in Allah’s mood from peaceful to militant and conciliatory to confrontational. Muslim apologists in the West present the kinder verses of the Quran or what is known as the Early Revelation. While Islamic scholars, when have only Muslims as their audience, say that those softer verses of the Quran were abrogated and supplanted by harsher ones. The reason given is, as Al Maudoody puts it, “Mohammad became strong enough to move from the stage of weakness to the stage of Jihad”.

    For 13 years Muhammad preached in Mecca but less than 100 people accepted him. Meccans preferred Al Nadir, another storyteller to him. Muhammad’s irreverence to their gods angered them. So he escaped and established himself in Medina . His followers also joined him and he called them immigrants. At first they were poor and used to work as journeymen in palm plantations that belonged to the Jews living in Medina . They used to give some of their food to Muhammad, who often dined on nothing but few dates. After one year in exile, Muhammad found the situation unbearable and he started raiding the merchant caravans that were carrying goods from Damascus to Mecca . One of these raids that took place at Badr was a big success and the Prophet made a good fortune thereof. Then he planned other highway robberies. He distributed the booty, including women, among those who took part in the battles and kept 20% for himself. He even made money by taking the passengers of the Caravan and threatened to kill them if ransom was not paid by their families. He assured his followers that if they fall in the battles, they will get more rewards in Paradise . Gradually his fortunes changed. He was no more a weak neglected preacher but the head of a state who commanded absolute power over his followers. With this change of fortune Muhammad’s message also changed. Here is a comparison between some early verses he wrote in Mecca while weak and some that he wrote in Medina after becoming powerful.

  30. 30
    Australian Hindu AUSTRALIA Says:

    Gradually his fortunes changed. He was no more a weak neglected preacher but the head of a state who commanded absolute power over his followers. With this change of fortune Muhammad’s message also changed. Here is a comparison between some early verses he wrote in Mecca while weak and some that he wrote in Medina after becoming powerful.

    Meccan Early Verses & Medinan Later verses

    2:256 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    There is no compulsion in religion

    9:123 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.

    73:10 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    Be patient with what they say, and part from them courteously

    8:12 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.

    109:6 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    To you be your religion, and to me my religion”

    3:85 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him; in the next world he shall be among the losers.”

    20:103 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord,

    2:191 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out

    2:83 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    Speak good to men…

    9:5 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    Slay the idolaters wherever you find them

    10:99 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    If it had been thy Lord’s Will, they would all have believed, all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind against their will to believe!

    2:193 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah

    50:45 (early MECCAN VERSE)

    We well know what the infidels say: but you are not to compel them

    9:14 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers

    29:45 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    Argue with people of the book, other than evil doers, only by means of what are better! and say, we believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you. Our God is the same as your God, and we are surrendered to Him.

    9:29 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day… and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior”

    2:62 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabeans,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

    9:30 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    The Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

    7:199 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; But turn away from the ignorant.

    9:28 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikûn (unbeleivers) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah) after this year, …

    15:85 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    Pardon thou, with a gracious pardoning….

    14:17 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    Before him is Hell; and he shall be made to drink boiling water.

    6:108 (Early meccan Verse)

    and insult not (Revile not) those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus we made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end they return to their Lord, and we shall then tell them the truth of all that they did

    3:61 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: “Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!”

    43:88,89 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    O Lord, these are people who do not believe,’ Bear with them and wish them ‘peace.’ In the end they shall know their folly.

    47:4 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.

    50:45 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    We know best what they say; and thou art not one to overawe them by force.

    8:65, (Late MEDINAN VERSE)
    O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers

    16:90 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition.

    3:28 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (to fear) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

    45.14 (EARLY MECCAN VERSE)

    Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah:

    8:60 (LATE MEDINAN VERSE)

    Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies.

    This dichotomy is explained by some Muslim scholars.

    Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Quran into English writes:

    “Allah revealed in Sura Bara’at (Repentance, IX) [the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon "the fighting" against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are STRONG and have the ability to fight against them. So at first "the fighting" was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory "[Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.]

    Q 9:5 reads: “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them”
    So according to Dr. M. Khan in Q. 9:5 Allah ordered Mohammad to cancel all covenants and to fight the pagans, the Jews even the Christians. This is in contrast to what Muhammad wrote earlier.

    “Thou wilt find the nearest of them in love to the believers [Muslims} are those who say 'We are Christians'" (Q. 5:82)

    Dr. Khan continues:

    The "Mujahideen who fight against the enemies of Allah in order that the worship should be all for Allah (alone and not for any other deity) and that the word is Allah's (ie. none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and His religion Islam) should be upper most."

    So first it was “There is no compulsion in religion” (Q. 2:265) and then

    "O who believe! shall I direct you to a commerce that which will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and His Apostle (Mohammad), and that you strive hard and fight in the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That will be better for you, if you but knew. If you do so He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into gardens of Eternity - that is the great success" (Q. 61:10-12)

    Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary academic, does not see in Q. 2:256 and Q. 9:73 a case of abrogation but a case of delaying or postponing the command to fight the infidels. To support his view he quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote:

    “The command to fight the infidels was DELAYED UNTIL THE MUSLIMS BECOME STRONG, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut , 1983, p. 269.]

    Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said:

    “Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims.”[ibid p. 270]

    And Nahas writes:

    “the scholars differed concerning Q. 2:256. (There is no compulsion if religion) Some said: ‘It has been abrogated [cancelled] for the Prophet compelled the Arabs to embrace Islam and fought them and did not accept any alternative but their surrender to Islam. The abrogating verse is Q. 9:73 ‘O Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and hypocrites, and be thou harsh with them.’ Mohammad asked Allah the permission to fight them and it was granted. Other scholars said Q. 2:256 has not been abrogated, but it had a special application. It was revealed concerning the people of the Book [the Jews and the Christians]; they can not be compelled to embrace Islam if they pay the Jizia (that is head tax on free non-Muslims under Muslim rule). It is only the idol worshippers who are compelled to embrace Islam and upon them Q. 9:73 applies. This is the opinion of Ibn ‘Abbas which is the best opinion due to the authenticity of its chain of authority.”[ al-Nahas, An-Nasikh wal-Mansukh, p.80. See also Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, A-Nnasikh wal-Mansukh, Dar al-Kotob al-'Elmeyah, birute, 1986, p.42.]

    Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi writes:

    “Fight in the way of God with those who fight with you, but aggress not: God loves not the aggressors (2:190)” On the authority of Ga’far ar-Razi from Rabi’ Ibn ‘Ons, from ‘Abil-’Aliyah who said: This is the first verse that was revealed in the Qur’an about fighting in the Madina. When it was revealed the prophet used to fight those who fight with him and avoid those who avoid him, until Sura 9 was revealed. And so is the opinion of ‘Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn ‘Aslam who said this verse was cancelled by 9:5 “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them”[ bn Hazm al-Andalusi, An-Nasikh wal- Mansukh, Dar al-Kotob al-'Elmeyah, birute, 1986, P.27]

    For more on this subject see http://www.debate.domini.org/newton/tolerance.html,

    Muhammad demanded from his followers to wage war against people of their own kin. And to justify his killing sprees he said, “oppression is worse than killing”. The following verse was revealed to incite the immigrants to kill their fellow Meccans because they oppressed them forcing them to leave Mecca .

    Q. 2:191
    You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.

    In fact the Qurashis were not sympathetic to Muslims. They mocked and teased them but never killed anyone for accepting Islam. The reason for this loss of love was due to the fact that Muhammad was making sacrilege of their gods and was disrespectful of their beliefs. The reaction of the Meccans was justifiable and normal.

    What did Muhammad do to those who mocked HIM? He was not a man who could tolerate criticisms. Abu `Afak, a 120 year old man and `Asma’ Bint Marwan a nursing single mother of 5 were assassinated by Muhammad’s orders for composing poems that Muhammad found offensive. That is all it took to lose their lives.

    Muhammad says that oppression is worse than killing. Apart from the fact that this statement is ridiculous, he himself instructed his followers to be harsh and oppressive when dealing with the non-believers.

    Q. 9: 123
    Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness (qilzat) in you.

    However, as the facts stands the non-believers did not attack the Muslims. It were Muslims who attacked Mecca , Kheibar, and the Jewish quarters of Medina . Was it the Persians who raided the Muslims? Was it India that was preventing the Arabs from worshiping Allah? Did Spain come to fight against the Muslims? If Allah was God, one would expect a grain of honesty from his messenger and his devotees.

    Muhammad said anyone who does not believe in him must be killed. But he spared the lives of the Christians and the Jews provided they pay a penalty tax. In Keibar he exacted 50% of all the crops produced by the Jews from their own lands that he confiscated to be given to him. Is this not oppression? Of course when Muhammad died Omar banished all those poor Jews from Keibar altogether. The Quran is unequivocal when it comes to oppressing the non-believers.

    Q.9: 29
    “Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day… and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior”

    Muslims who claim that Islam is a religion of peace and quote the Quranic verses where Muhammad keeps reminding that Allah is the Merciful and Forgiving, when shown these verses of Quran and the bloody legacy of the Prophet’s wars and plunders, change their tactic and boast that “Yes, Islam countenances the use of violence under certain defined circumstances”, as a cyber apologist wrote to me.

    What are those “defined conditions”? Let us make it clear that we are not talking about using force against common criminals, murderers or rapists. We are talking about violence against innocent people who do not accept Muhammad’s claim of prophethood and prefer to worship their own God, in their own way or worship none if they choose so.

    Capital punishment by death has been eliminated in most of the civilized world. But even those countries that still practice it kill the convicts by lethal injection or another painless and humane way. They never torture them or maim them. Yet Muhammad prescribed the worst tortures for those who do not accept his hodgepodge of religion.

    Q.5: 34 “Retribution of those, who wage war against ALLAH and HIS Messenger and strive to create disorder in the land, is that they be slain or crucified or their hands and feet be cut off on account of their enmity, or they be expelled from the land. That shall be a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a great punishment.”

    What kind of sadistic god is this Allah!?

    One question that I was never able to get an answer for is: if Allah wants to kill the unbelievers, why he dose not do it himself? It should be easy for him to kill them, maim them, burn them, and strike them with all sorts of disasters and calamities to satisfy his vengeful nature and bloodthirsty mood. Why instead he asks his messenger and his zealot devotees to do his dirty work? Is it perhaps that he is incapable to do it on his own? Or is it that he is no god at all but the figment of Muhammad’s mind, a convenient scarecrow that would give the self acclaimed prophet unlimited power to plunder, rape and govern the lives and minds of those ignorant barbarians who believed in the concoction of his lies?

    Muhammad claimed that the disbelief in Allah was the greatest crime punishable by death. Who benefited from this? He was the only contact between Allah and his foolhardy followers. Disobedience to him meant disobedience to God. Would really God care if people believed in Him or not? What does he get out it? Would really God’s self esteem be hurt if these primates of the Earth did not recognize and praised him? Would he really be so offended that he would burn people eternally? That is an absurd preposition. But it gave Muhammad the same power as God to do anything he wished with no one to question him. He got the cart blanch to kill anyone, to demand his followers to go and fight even their own allies, relatives and friends and bring 20% of the booty to him. It gave him right to sleep with any number of women and choose the youngest and the prettiest of the captive women. The more he exalted Allah the more his power grew. Allah was an excuse that empowered a power hungry man to rise from poverty to absolute dominance and make him even dream of conquering the great kingdoms of Persia and Byzantine.

    “Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight – are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious. Q.9: 24

    He was no teacher of morality. Goodness or virtues had no meaning to him. His only preoccupation was making people submit their wills to his Allah, whom no one had access to except him. The more dreadful he painted his god, the more control he could exert over his followers. Allah was an alter ego for a control freak narcissist man hungry for power and adulation. His obsession to subdue people into accepting his god was such that he promised even the adulterers and thieves a place in Paradise if they accepted him while those who would not accept him would be burned in Hell even if they led a saintly life.

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 445
    Narrated Abu Dhar:
    The Prophet said, “Gabriel said to me, ‘Whoever amongst your followers die without having worshipped others besides Allah, will enter Paradise (or will not enter the (Hell) Fire).” The Prophet asked. “Even if he has committed illegal sexual intercourse or theft?” He replied, “Even then.”

    This is even confirmed in Quran:

    4:48 “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.”

    Of course it goes without saying that those who murder innocent people for him in the name of Allah would go straight to paradise.

    How could any fair-minded person accept this nonsense? How is it possible that people do not stop for a minute to think about the whole thing? Why we don’t ask ourselves simple questions, like:

    Why God NEEDS to be known?

    If He is so desperate to be known, why he dose not reveal Himself to everyone just the way he reveal Himself to his prophet?

    Why he plays hide and seek and then punishes those who fail to find him?

    Why his messenger acted so ruthlessly and lived such immoral life as to cast doubt on his integrity and truthfulness?

    Why his words in the Quran are so contrary to science, logic and commonsense?

    These are simple yet important questions, that every Muslim must ask himself. We are not sheep. We are humans endowed with a brain and it is up to us to use it.

  31. 31
    mhalimz INDIA Says:

    Islam is Deen-e-fitrat i.e. a natural Religion in other words it is very close to human demeanors, there are people who do not declare and act clandestinely, there are others who are bold enough and declare before they act, Almighty Allah is the one who instructed his servants to act according to the situations prevail. apart from this American dropped nuclear bomb on Hiroshima Nagasaki with out any declaration, invaded Iraq by blaming it possess WMD which they never found but killed Saddam Hussein before one day of his maturing the age limit.
    The history of American invasions show the very demeanors as under;
    General Wood was present and looking on. His order had been, ‘Kill or capture those savages.’ Apparently our little army considered that the ‘or’ left them authorized to kill or capture according to taste, and that their taste had remained what it has been for eight years, in our army out there-the taste of Christian butchers. . . .The enemy numbered six hundred-including women and children-and we abolished them utterly, leaving not even a baby alive to cry for its dead mother. This is incomparably the greatest victory that was ever achieved by the Christian soldiers of the United States.”
    U.S. involvement in World War II (1941-45) was sparked by the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, and fear of an Axis invasion of North America. Allied bombers attacked fascist military targets, but also fire-bombed German and Japanese cities such as Dresden and Tokyo, party under the assumption that destroying civilian neighborhoods would weaken the resolve of the survivors and turn them against their regimes. The atomic bombing of Japan at the end of the war was carried out without any kind of advance demonstration or warning that may have prevented the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.
    The war in Korea (1950-53) was marked by widespread atrocities, both by North Korean/Chinese forces, and South Korean/U.S. forces. U.S. troops fired on civilian refugees headed into South Korea, apparently fearing they were northern infiltrators. Bombers attacked North Korean cities, and the U.S. twice threatened to use nuclear weapons. North Korea is under the same Communist government today as when the war began.
    During the Middle East crisis of 1958, Marines were deployed to quell a rebellion in Lebanon, and Iraq was threatened with nuclear attack if it invaded Kuwait. This little-known crisis helped set U.S. foreign policy on a collision course with Arab nationalists, often in support of the region’s monarchies.
    In the early 1960s, the U.S. returned to its pre-World War II interventionary role in the Caribbean, directing the failed 1961 Bay of Pigs exile invasion of Cuba, and the 1965 bombing and Marine invasion of the Dominican Republic during an election campaign. The CIA trained and harbored Cuban exile groups in Miami, which launched terrorist attacks on Cuba, including the 1976 downing of a Cuban civilian jetliner near Barbados. During the Cold War, the CIA would also help to support or install pro-U.S. dictatorships in Iran, Chile, Guatemala, Indonesia, and many other countries around the world.
    Apart from this what Israel is doing in Jerusalem, what Modi has done in Gujarat and commented by Atal Bihari Vajpayee on Raja Dharma and Narendra Modi reminds of Anushasana Parva but the following is just contradictory, are well known facts.
    Kabeer has well said
    “Buray ko dhundan jo chhal bura na paayo koyi,
    Jo ghar dekho aapno mujhse bura na koyi

  32. 32
    Ravi AUSTRALIA Says:

    Islam calls itself DIN-E-GHALIB ie. the religion of dominance. Dominating non-Muslims? I would like enlightened Muslims to shed light on this fact what is the meaning of DIN-E-GHALIB the religion of dominance?

  33. 33
    Narendra Modi runs a Website that justifies Gujarat Riots (GujaratRiots.com) through his IT Team : Truth Of Gujarat UNITED STATES Says:

    [...] being circulated by GujaratRiots.com site and demystify them in the coming days. Print PDFMyth 4: The Gujarat police turned a blind eye to the rioting ↩Share [...]

  34. 34
    Jurd UNITED STATES Says:

    The train that burnt in Godhra is burning from inside as you can see and not burning from outside.
    The very basis of the riots was fabricated. Rest is for Feku masters web based team to decided

  35. 35
    Ravi INDIA Says:

    @jurd: If you know as much, why don’t you go to court and prove it? Why do you think the court have punished the culprits of Godhra train burning?

  36. 36
    Quora UNITED STATES Says:

    What are some of the best tweets on Salman Khan acquitted of all charges in 2002 hit-and-run case?…

    I don’t understand why people just discuss the riots and not the real reason behind it. A train full of 58 pilgrims was burnt and that was done by a group of Muslims. Now if you think that BJP of RSS is pro -Hindu party, can they ever let the innocent…

  37. 37
    Gujarat HC dismisses Zakia petition against Modi- Real justice will be got when liars will be convicted UNITED STATES Says:

    [...] of Police. The first alert message of 27-02-2002 from the Home Department covered the need to take precautionary measures including adequate police bandobast and preventive measures including issuance of prohibitory orders depending upon the local situation. It was instructed that [...]

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